Public sentiment surrounding India's indigenous jet engine development is mixed yet leaning slightly positive, with many expressing pride in self-reliance and a desire for national progress. However, there are pervasive concerns regarding reliance on foreign technology, bureaucratic inefficiencies, and the challenges posed by technological complexities and funding shortages. While some comments show cautious optimism about India's capabilities and potential for success, a notable portion expresses skepticism regarding the current pace of development and long-standing issues within the defense sector.

Indian Government

DRDO

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Developing an engine requires a lot of R&amp;D. That takes time and money. Indian government's policy has always been of surviving not thriving. We want innovative products but don't want to engage in research work. Honestly it is a failure of policy, mindset of the people, poverty everything.  
.  
We need to rewire our entire outlook on life, education everything.  
.  
"India's restrictive automotive policies effectively capped engine sizes through heavy taxation, forcing companies to focus exclusively on small, fuel-efficient vehicles." - NO. Russia has its own jet engine. Do you think Russia has a very vibrant car market?  
France has its own jet engine yet they mainly use public transit and small fuel efficient cars. Even Sweden has its own indigenous jet SAAB - Gripen.  
.  
"Companies like Tata could have reasonably developed aircraft engines if not constrained by these limitations." - No my friend. None of the Indian car companies would do that. Forget cars. Lets look at software and other tech, how many revolutionary products do we have? None. We have no indigenous messaging apps, no OS for PCs/Phones. Nothing. Indian companies have no desire for R&amp;D, they only care about profits and killing their employees through overwork.  
.  
The need for R&amp;D is missing in our entire mindset. Hence we do not have our own engine.  
.  
Look at our own railways. We could not even make our own high speed train, we had to ask Japan for that.

Witty_Attention2208

Capitalism works on supply and demand, you can't just make next Boeing just because you say you want to.

Design for jet engines are public knowledge, everything from principle to designs are already there, what's not there is demand.

World has enough aerospace companies and those companies meticulously make sure there is no power vaccume for another to fulfill, they don't want more Competition so they make sure there is no demand for a Competition.

And without demand there is no supply.

Questions like this are idiotic, we missed the first aerospace train by 70 years and the next train won't come until the previous one crashes and burns.

Hell we barely managed to board the IT train after taking a shortcut to its next station and currently we are stuck in traffic on our way to station just hoping that ai train is late.

bhavy111

India policy has struggled developing jet engines, but not as much as poverty. See, defense innovations need continuous spending on even technologies that aren't feasible with today's available technology.

Initial jet engines were vastly underpowered as compared to turbo-charged or supercharged piston engines. Even then, continuous investments were made - US, Soviets, French and British kept spending ungodly sums towards developing jet engines. Ultimately, they became feasible enough to use in military planes, and then quickly were adapted for passenger travels.

Similarly, initial silicon (from the 1960 - 1980s) was NOT feasible for anything other than military. Really only extremely massive companies of that time could even find a use for 'computers'.

When it became cheaper and smaller and in a format that can be used across a wide array of businesses, the computer age began and with Windows OS, it exploded, and in the late 90s - early 2000s having a computer at each desk was a symbol of your company doing really well and keeping up with the technology of today.

The leading jet engine manufacturers of today have progressed to crystalline ceramic blade inserts - which are holy grail of jet engines. Supporting ever higher combustion temperature, enabling ever higher bypass ratios and for military purposes, supporting variable bypass ratios is the holy grail - you don't have to choose a compromise between efficiency and performance.

Today, India is so far behind. For example, for the nickel based super alloys of metals that were used before current ceramic based blade inserts - you need to have a single lattice crystal structure billet from which you can machine your blade insert. India doesn't have that yet.

We need government efforts through government owned companies like HAL and government efforts through privately owned companies - and we need continuous government efforts. By continuous government efforts, I mean continuous dumping of vast amounts of money. Ungodly sums, for a poor country like India. But that alone doesn't make sense. We also need material science engineers and researchers. How many universities and colleges offer decently good material science instruction and research based courses throughout the country? Less than 20. We need 200.

(Also, your one fact is incorrect. Since 1973 the Rolls-Royce car company is totally separate entity from Rolls-Royce jet engine maker, when British government sold off the nationalized bankrupt company due to financial issues.)

To make a successful jet engine - not a modern day jet engine equal to the likes of F135 in the F-35 Lightning II, but a generation older jet engine, that 4th generation jets like F-16 comes equipped with - a afterburning turbofan like PW100 or GE F110 will take close to $50B or ₹4.37T

Why?

\- Equipment which can build the jet engine needs to be developed. Test stands, and other associated inputs for the jet engines - like high temperature delta hoses, etc.

\- Manufacturing expertise. We need material science engineers and researchers. This means massive amounts of research grants distributed throughout the nation to different universities and colleges.

\- Private industry and government owned companies need to contribute through their own research programs, funded by government and through private player's own money, in conjunction with research going on throughout the education institutions around the world.

\- A jet engine is not a single material machine. It has thousands of parts. All of which need to be air-worthiness qualified. This means equipment needs to be developed to drill cooling holes through blades that are so tiny, that you need specialized advance machinery with built-in microscopes to first find accurate points to be drilled into and then wire-edm drilling. We know wire edm cutting is very popular, but wire-edm drilling is not very well known or understood by many.

All of that is expensive.

Ok-Pea3414

I think again, we’re making the mistake of comparing India to countries that are the exception, not the rule.


There are tonnes of countries that make airplanes,  but only 5 that make jet engines - USA, Russia, China, France and UK. 


The question isn’t really “what is India doing wrong” because that’s not the case. It’s more “what special actions have those countries taken,” because having their own jet engine really isn’t the norm, it’s the exception.

sleeper_shark

Metallurgy. We just do not have the expertise and experts in metallurgy. Building engines requires high end metallurgical expertise. We do not have the necessary top talent in academia in universities to crack this problem. This problem exists in the private sector too. I remember that Tata Steel had just one metallurgy scientist who was world class.  He was retiring and they were just running helter skelter to figure out some way of knowledge transfer because it was all in his head and he wasn't a great communicator.

ExpressChange3379

Remember, a mechanic who plays with machines is called unskilled where as a white collar worker, who just fills forms, do taxes is called high skilled.

Mindset matters a lot

xxxfooxxx

this country has no spirit neither its citizens

Cheap_trick1412

[deleted]

DRDO is filled with not very intelligent people

Kaveri project was started in 1985.
Still work in progress, while 40 Tejas are flying with GE 404 engines.

There is a time limit for everything. Do not sugarcoat any project that is open ended... which is the standard case in India.

Debunk2025

The post is a bit misleading germany is certainly not on the list.

France, UK, ,US and China are able to produce jet engines china being new to this and still has not mastered the art of jet engine making because the technology is very difficult and china has achieved this much through reverse engineering and we have better standards than them.

Jet engine technology is coveted and rarely shared and all that you have wrote is true but for engines in general not jet engines.

edit:

the kaveri project is not a failure all engines are developed through older designs in future we can make better engines through kaveris designs as well.

Jet engine is a very very difficult art to master heck even japan dose not have its own jet engine.

Ok-Seaweed-5611

Developing jet engines required high commitment and strategic-partners, something that I doubted if India able to commit any. 

India not even able to produce smartphone. None of Indian technology company want to spend R&amp;D to produce standard 8GB / 512 smartphone.. despites have all necessary resources..

invistaa

I didn’t read your post. But policy. They had money to build useless things like statues. Ok, this costs much  more - but we had priorities and those money invested in research wouldn’t have forced us to spend even more sourcing tech from outside bad wasting precious currency reserves.

TheGalaxial

India needs a private defense industry where Govt first needs to infuse initial capital. Then ask the private company to build competing engine prototypes. Winner from this, should get a substantial contract to deliver the engine. In nut shell, Govt needs to pour absurd amount of money. US does the same for all their defense tech. And also lot of traitors in the Indian government who don’t want India a strong self reliant nation. They need to be booted out. And pls dont expect government agencies to do more than necessary for their paychecks. Only potential for profit can motivate people to make ground breaking tech and government employees have no such incentive to burn their mid night oil.

Muted_Koala_2393

Usual_Common4762

DifferentMango1377

It's capability!! I don't agree with claims of lack of budget. With almost zero focus on skills for R&amp;D, expecting the country to develop its own jet engine is almost like mockery.

naga_raju

Mainly indian politics &amp; it's politicians 

Here’s a **10-line strategic plan** for India to develop indigenous jet engines, citing how the USA and Russia succeeded:

1. **Learn from history**: After WWII, **USA and USSR acquired German and British jet engine tech**—not invented, but evolved it with strong industry and funding.
2. **Study existing engines**: Focus on reverse engineering proven engines like the **Russian AL-31F** (used in Su-30 MKI), similar to how China developed WS-10.
3. **Build tech partnerships**: Collaborate with **France (Safran)** or **Russia** to co-develop next-gen engines with **full tech transfer**, not just assembly.
4. **Designate private champions**: Assign key roles to **Tata, L&amp;T, Godrej**, etc., to handle precision manufacturing and subsystems (like turbine blades, casings).
5. **Empower GTRE**: Make it a focused R&amp;D body, not a manufacturer—support it with IITs, IISc, and metallurgical labs for material and design breakthroughs.
6. **Invest in materials science**: Set up national programs for **single-crystal blade alloys**, high-temp ceramics, and stealth-compatible coatings.
7. **Create a Jet Engine Mission**: Like ISRO’s PSLV mission—long-term, funded, protected from political cycles or quick-result pressure.
8. **Develop a test ecosystem**: Build indigenous high-altitude testbeds and wind tunnels for iterative testing (as the U.S. did with NACA and NASA).
9. **Commit military support**: Make the **IAF and Navy partners, not just buyers**, with phased adoption plans even for early engine variants.
10. **Think 10–15 years**: Success in jet engines is slow-burn—**Russia and China took decades**, but India can do it faster with clarity and coordination.

datawarrior123

If India doesn't have own Jet Engine it's Nehru ki Galti!!

I kid you not!!



"India’s participation in Egypt’s aircraft industry in the 1960s was the direct result of a close understanding between Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser, wrote Group Captain Kapil Bhargava (retd), who as a Squadron Leader in June 1963 was deputed by the Indian Air Force to work as a test pilot in the Egyptian Aircraft Factory 36 at Helwan. He has the distinction of undertaking the first flight of the Helwan HA-300 fighter jet, designed by Willy Messerschmitt. The first flight of the HA-300 was undertaken on March 7, 1964 and lasted 12½ minutes, he wrote in a long account on bharat-rakshak.com.



India’s interest was in developing the E-300 turbojet engine for its own indigenous HF-24 Marut fighter designed by another German — Kurt Tank. Extensive testing was done with two prototypes and the third prototype was just beginning taxi testing when the project was scrapped in 1969 for a variety of reasons: financial considerations, Egypt’s defeat in the 1967 war and the Soviet Union offering its fighter jets to India."


Source:

India, Egypt ties: from fighter jet development in the 1960s to collaborating on defence industry today - The Hindu https://share.google/lL3q0ehzzJviwuVhW

And


https://youtu.be/LgeNkMmuQ3I?

What was critical was that India could have purchased the under development project from Egypt’s Government before it was scrapped. 
Yes Nehru passed away in 1964, so technically I can't blame Nehru ji, but that's the current National obsession

Sudden-Check-9634

Thanks to mudiji for delaying funds for Kaveri and eventually destroying the hope of indigenous jet engine.

Friendly_Macaroon460

OP, 

Thoda research karke batao, how many jet engine manufacturers are there in the world ?

DesiBail

It was *Chacha* Nehru who laid the real foundations of modern India—R&amp;D, IITs, IIMs, heavy industries, airlines, even nuclear reactors and everything. After him came the line of **nikaame bacche** who couldn’t add anything remarkable. The IT industry that feeds everyone today exists thanks to a few visionary technocrats, not because of any prime minister’s genius. And Modi? His full-time career is winning elections. Expecting long-term vision from him is like expecting Wi-Fi in a cave.


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I'm not kidding when I say this, anyone who has worked at DRDO/HAL knows how inefficient they are. They literally work at 25-30 percent capacity. They really need to get their shit sorted


I just thought it's Bangalore, but no, another friend who did his internship at DRDO Pune said the same


Blatantly inefficient. I'm sure it's the same in  orgs such as GTRE too.

betelgeuse3150

We need heavy privatisation in the defence industry. Organisations like the HAL which rely on government funding for R&amp;D should be replaced by ones who don’t require external funding to support projects. This might present us with an ethical dilemma which is often intertwined with privatisation, but it is the need of the hour

Dhruv_Plankton97

liyakadav

People casually missing a critical point, metallurgy and availability of high grade materials. Right from get go we were outright denied access to them. Even our beloved friend USSR wouldn't give us the good stuff. Jet engines are predominantly a material science, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics game. Lose 1 and you don't have anything work with. 
People saying privatization, private players in India are worse than govt.

One_Advantage_7193

Only one answer - government babus who show up at 9 for their coffee and newspaper

Then muddle along till lunch, which is of course subsidised by the taxpayer 

Then snooze until 4:30, when it's time to go back home. 

They do this for 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, and for 30 odd years until it's time to claim a pension and retire.

When they're so busy, where's the time to do anything else?!

Jazzlike_Method_7642

We don't have the right metallurgical technology and expertise required to create high strength, high tensile and consistently well performing alloys and composites that are required in the manufacture of of jet engines. Precision manufacturing, within tolerances of micro and even Nano meters at times requires extremely expensive machinery as well as the expertise to run and manufacture parts like turbine blades and other sensitive engine components.

India needs to accept that we're gonna have to walk this path alone and figure it out for ourselves, however for that, our govt needs to stop shooting itself as well as our country in the bloody foot all the time we try to make any real progress.

Spirit-Hydra69

Look into the issues China had in producing it's own jet engine.

These are cutting edge engines which need to perform reliably and repeatedly over a long period of time while meeting the criteria set by the Air force.

It takes time and R&amp;D to do this.

RepulsiveDig9091

One of my friends worked at DRDO developing missiles. Another worked at ISRO on propulsion. One of them was muslim.

Both left for the US because of frustration at the rampant corruption where parts would be quoted for 10x the price and everyone and their mother would take a cut ballooning expenses while delivering sub par products. 

Both of them have a happier life with a better QOL. Ergo? Brain drain due to corruption and a want for a better life, talent is lost.

wizenedwizardofoz

not just funding, understand making an aircraft engine isnt a piece of cake, its one of the most complex piece of technology there is. there are more countries who use nuclear weapons than countries who can make aircraft engine. Take for example china which after 20 years of R and D, and years of studying imported russian fighter engine and reverse engineer the al31 engines. Even now chinese engines are very bad than western counterparts. Their service life is very bad. A place where even china struggled and took a several decades to even make an engine, how can india with a per capita of 2700 dollars, we just dont have the industrial base and depth for this kind of engineering ALONG with our incompetent govt, our corrupt babus who further causes hindrance. IF THE ENGINE PROGRAM CAME UNDER THE PMO LIKE OUR ICBM, WE COULD HAVE HAD AN INGINE IN PROBABLY 15-20 YEARS.

himank957

Bhai post in indianDefense or go through older posts. People here are giving generic answers. That may or may not be the reason. They may not even know what is the program name or latest updates on that

Diligent-Wealth-1536

1. Lack of funding : cannot buy licenses ( like a dassault CAD package ) ; usually whatever is bought is very limited due to Indian and foreign security concerns. 
2. Lack of Human Resources: the best and the brightest work for ITES, consulting or banking finance sectors .. and usually abroad 
3. Lack of good project management skills: even when specific engineering work is outsourced to private concerns, who don’t usually produce what is in the scope. Often requires significant rework 
4. Lack of quality management in the supply chain : good products , completely tested and a rate produced for the Indian market. Think bearings think SKF who are a globally renowned Indian brand , but we don’t have a full supply chain with world class quality.

bhakt_hartha

axhwn__

We have not invested enough money into it.

Sumeru88

I read an Engineer had offered to build the Aircraft Engine in 2009 to Govt of India, his offer was taken seriously by Govt &amp; Bureaucracy. He left the country to join a Co in USA to never to return.

Koi_Hai

lovecraft_88

dogef1

I don’t know why no one mentioned we partnered with Egypt to build fighter jets but Nehru scrapped it after the war and bought jets from foreign countries lot of congress supporters say Nehru created ITTs but ignore this fact. 

piscean1008

CORRUPTION &amp; A Politician from a particular party wanted India to buy Fighter Jet from other countries so that they can do corruption.

Electrical_Regret685

Because its difficult. China only recently came out with the ws-15 for their j-20. Both of the chinese 5th gen planes are twin engine because they can’t make a single engine powerful enough for their plane unlike the f-35. 

Afaik Russian su57s have been delayed because their airforce wasnt happy with the engines as well and they are having production troubles.

Ecstatic_Response_16

Cuz we shit , people think doing R&amp;D is waste of time .

DistinctDiscount6800

Because we don't spend anything on r&amp;d and nobody in their right minds will offer tot for jet engines

Mission_City_1500

Everybody here talking about lack of funding, lack of materials, poor nation bla bla bla. But no one ready to admit one obvious lacking. Lack of human resource. Indian engineers have skill issue. When every manoj and pajeet here is dreaming to settle abroad, India is left with mediocre talent back at home. And mediocre people cannot create cutting edge tech.

This was also the reason why germany lost WW2. Because its scientists and researchers left Germany and settled in US. 

India needs to invest into it's people.

Patzer26

The blades of a turbine are the most critical component to make. Only a few companies globally have the tech know how to make them. The metallurgical process required to make them is a closely guarded secret. That is the real bottleneck and perhaps the only bottleneck.

Annual-Floor-6863

malhok123

Post on r/indianairforce and r/indiandefence too

CaptMrAcePilot

It’s really difficult to build jet engines. USA and all the countries you mentioned received massive funding in defense when they fought ww2. They were able to get off ground as the industry, r&amp;d was mature and ready in 1940s. No country afterwards has ever been able to make jet engines. Look at china, Iran, Pakistan, Brazil. All of them have struggled. That doesn’t mean India didn’t try. Check out the older experiments India tried with HAL Marut. Recently India has pivoted to things it knows best. That’s missile technology. 

mrxplek

PSUs center or state run on beaurocratic principles , they need complete overhaul for anything good to come out of them. they have been partially successful.

kthdeep

1. No Complete Transfer of Knowledge from those who have already completed their own programs.
2. Geopolitics, Technical Sabotage. GE404 from US was delayed for years now. Reason - Competion to F16's sales...


We have already pitched ourselves in a lot of sales regarding small time military technical solutions. Fighter Jets are big business. Argentina was pitched F16, Chinese J17 and HAL's Tejas Mk1A (not sure on variant) and the F16 was picked - you can guess why, but that DOES show that Tejas is DEFINITELY on the International Radar.


Just as Ford Caught up to Ferrari in the Moto circuit... Tejas will too... India is not far away and once they crack the equation themselves, it won't take a century for them to upgrade that same engine with improvements to Gen 5 &amp; Gen 6 engines. Time... And Geopolitics... And Internal Intelligence protecting our knowledge and associates from external threat... And more importantly, Nationalist Pride and Will Power...

OutrageousKnee4899

India is a gone case at this point. We can exist like saudi arabia does. Buy stuff. Best we can do is locally produce al31,41,51 engines and rd 33 mk engine. Rd doesnt smoke anymore. And then we can try to make all component locally and them make our own copies of russian jets. Thats best we can do. Make peace with china by declaring international border. Use that time of peace for building of deterrence and reach escape velocity. There will be another Pahalgam in future. Recent op sindoor has open our weakness to pakistan. We shouldn't have done that. We need 15 years to rebuild everything. Our command structure as well. 
Govt has spend 25 billion dollars on ladli behena. But we cant spend 10b dollars on manufacturing russian jet engine and perfecting it. Marathi is beating hindi speaker

Novel_Toe_9235

Kent_Knifen

tie sheet amusing joke payment innate thought memory workable party

i_like_my_dog_more

Good investment if you like huge QC failure rates like the indian made iPhones.

chibiace

This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/uk-committed-to-jet-engine-project-with-india/articleshow/97897333.cms?from=mdr) reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)
*****
&gt; &amp;quot;...This is not like other platforms where India would have to seek permissions to export either,&amp;quot; said a UK delegation that was at Aero India 2023.

&gt; UK expects to deepen relations with India in defence sector: British High Commissioner The United Kingdom wanted to broaden and deepen its relationship with India in defence area, especially with the air force, British High Commissioner Alex Ellis said at the Aero India 2023.

&gt; Aero India 2023: UK expects to deepen ties with India in defence sector, says British high commissioner.


*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/114027q/committed_to_jet_engine_project_with_india_says_uk/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672725 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **India**^#1 **Chalk**^#2 **Aero**^#3 **engine**^#4 **Force**^#5

autotldr


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This picture sums up pretty much exactly why. Look at the man on the right sitting casually on the airframe of a Sukhoi wearing sandals sans any safety gear. Look at the mess around him. Does this look like a place that makes next gen fighter jets or its engines? Would you bet your hard earned money on such a place to make a jet engine that would work let alone be reliable?

Our work culture/ethic is bad.

Our r&amp;d and technical prowess is almost non existent and heavily reliant on the west.

Our jugaad/chelaga mentality.

Our severe lack of funds that is the root of all things bad.

VisibleDonut69

I've spoken to a few military experts as well as aviation professionals on this topic. The overwhelming answer is that we lack Metallurgical expertise. The western world is unwilling to share the required knowledge. It is obviously a ploy to keep India dependant on western technology.

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USA companies are off-shoring in India like crazy in last few years. They don't give a shit about Trump, he would be their till 2028 only.

Moreover in capitalist economies certain Billionaires and Companies(ahem ahem Blackrock) have more power at backend then president.

Ok_Review_6504

Imagine if even half of that money was put into Kaveri R&amp;D... India would have it's own jet engines.

jhuk jaatein hain log jhukaane wala chahye .. crap warfare tech deals are called extraordinary 😆😆

Intrivort

I guess everything is for a show, on one side put tariffs on other side sell defense equipment.

Scholastic_nobody

US doesn't want to destroy its relationship as a defence supplier.   
What happens if they refuse the deal? Manufacturers globally would keep them out of their defence plans.

ActivX11

This is for mk1A , wait for mk2 orders also 😂😂

Dense_Profit_2478

That's cause GE is still a private company. To an extend, they will not be under the UW Govt cause capitalism. But that may change soon, cause one of their Senators said that they are exploring the option of buying stakes in US defense companies.

dontstealmydinner

At least use this as a bargaining chip to get some reduction in tariff. Just signing a billion dollar deal with a country that imposed 50% tariff makes little sense.

Lo_Ti_Lurker

vishnu_021

Immediate-Beyond-394

SnooCompliments8409

Acceptable-Car-9732

This is why I respect the Chinese more. They did whatever it took to make their own jet engines and are now planning on exporting their latest jet. While we are still begging for ToT.

Soviet_Bear78

papadragon_1

These initial engines  will be made in usa and production in india will start several years later

Ok_Operation9710

India is developing its first indigenous jet engine in collaboration with French firm Safran for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), aiming for self-reliance in aerospace.

India's Development of Indigenous Jet Engines

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Public Sentiment Summary

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